Rating gap in arena could be remade

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JosephMagnus
Rating gap in arena could be remade

Im pretty sure actually u cant face anyone with 400+ rating gap in arena. After restarts and with competition, this is leading to completely loose-dont win and win-dont loose situations.

Example: 1450 vs 1800 rating. For the 1450 rating dude, wheter he wins 24+rating or he looses 3-. For the other is the opposite.

More than that, its just embarassing to face a 1350 rating dude that is just starting to play with my competitive deck. Im pretty sure he wont have any fun out of that.

Suggestion: the gap at 150 rating would be reasonable. If u think that the top dude at 2k rating would be left to rot alone, 200 could do.

BTW: this arena system is completely awesome.

JosephMagnus

No one answered this thread, but lots of ppl in chat agrees with me.

Ive been facing dudes playing demo golems with amorya in standard. I beat them without taking 1 point of damage, and i believe thats really despiriting, and gives me only 3-4 points.

Dr.Bojangles
Dr.Bojangles's picture

Yea narrowing the range a little bit may be warranted.

Sarastro

I agree with this, I feel like a total douchebag everytime it happens

GANZ_Karl
GANZ_Karl's picture

Looking into this right now. Hopefully we can refine the system to keep the ratings close together without stranding the players at the top and bottom.

Oncus
Oncus's picture

Can we also have the starting rating a lot lower as well? Part of the problem is that the newer players start with 1500 which is still far from novice decks.
The result of that is that they start to lose a LOT until they get to 1200 or something. That's not a great way to start your season.

GANZ_Karl
GANZ_Karl's picture

Everybody starts at the same value. If we start new players at 1200 we have to start experienced players at 1200 as well, which would mean that they'd just fall to 900 instead.

The only options are to put a hard cap on the distance between two players ratings, and/or adjust the K-factor for the Elo system. Both have pros and cons.

Oncus
Oncus's picture

The suggestions for lower starting ELO is in addition to placing a cap, not as a substitute.

But you're right, once a cap is placed it won't matter if it's 1200 or 1500. However novice players still lose rating as soon as they start. I would guess it's quite disheartening to drop 300 rating once you start your ranked play. Why not start at 0 (no negative score)?

Or perhaps, add some brackets, with promotions to move forward to the next bracket (2/3 wins) and the rewards based on the brackets, rather than a rating. Is 1689 at 51st place, really that much worse than 1690 at 50th place?

GANZ_Karl
GANZ_Karl's picture

How matching works:

The system tries to match you with someone with the same rating as you. If no one is available with the same rating it expands the window (so if you're at 1700, it looks for anyone from 1690-1710). If it doesn't find anyone within that window it opens it up a little wider and looks again. The system repeats this process until either (A) it finds someone or (B) you go to the AI.

There is no cap, so if after 20 seconds a low rating player jumps in, you will be matched against them immediately. And the opposite is true as well, if a low rating player has been sitting there for 20 seconds and you start looking for an opponent, they'll grab you.

JosephMagnus

really weird. I remember in the past trying to face Celyne in arena, we both agreed by pms, joined at the same time and searched until both faced AI. I was at 2300 that time and her 1600. Then i suggested her raising her rating, and when she got to 1900 we started facing each other.

So i always thought the max gap was at 400.

GANZ_Karl
GANZ_Karl's picture

Maybe we missed it. We'll do some more searching.

Gomer

yeah i could of swore one of the old devs said the cap was 400 its somewhere on the forums i think.

Gomer

after over an hour of searching all i could find was a few mentions by old players about the cap and an old dev post about rating not being an requirement for players getting match up in a very old skirmish arena. if there was no cap then how could the old suicide arena movement have ever become a thing? http://forum.kingdomsccg.com/?q=node/1821

cewen

Is this forum thread related to the:

1800 vrs 1400
lose: lose 15-30 rating
win: get 3-8 rating

thing? cos it really annoying, hope that can be narrowed down a bit :/. lose 1 game and it means I got to play about 5 to get it back to where I was :(

justin

If you have a ratings cap then yes it will solve the problem of scoring , but how do you solve the problem of an empty arena for the higher ranked players? They simply dont play , they watch chat see whos on and pick the right time and come on for some easy points. What im saying is they are not there so i could be waiting an hour for a game here say. At this stage ill wait five mins but all i get is %90 low ranked player and %8 1700 to 1800 players and %2 top player the arena has the potential to be dead for someone trying to gain points and even if its not your going to be winning and losing the same amount because of far less play... The only way youll beat number one is if you pass his or hers score without playing them, then they will check the ratings see they are down and come in. You will never face them till then , well most of the time anyway. This is my experience with arena and have no intention of dissing another from players to devs.

Jaygore

justin

Ive just played 22 games in arena , ive won 18 games at a rough guess 80 points gain this has taken about an hour and a half... ive lost four of those game for a rough total of 100 points . This means and hour and a half of game play with a win rate of %85 you go backwards in ranking... if this happened in 15 mins you could scratch your head and keep going but another hour and a half of game play winning %85 of your games and more than likely going backwards. Feeling really meh!! The name of the game is to be competitive so hence the felling of annoyance .

Jaygore

JosephMagnus

That could only be solved by reducing the lenght of the arena season by half.

justin

Please explain joemagnuss :)

buso deL cueo

yeah, it's a very compLicated concept