Helm of everwill + mind preserver.

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nosher
Helm of everwill + mind preserver.

Grants near immortality to your hero.

The secrets out. Have fun abusing it people.

However punish decks still beat it, so if you really want to counter it just run those. The meta gets more exciting than ever.

And ofc thania can kill it with tempor reversal. Because tempor reversal is so broken it counters every single card in the game.

This game really needs a different beta team, the current lot haven't got a clue how to spot potential interactions new cards will have with old ones. Heck they didn't even realise old manacycle + dravkas might be broken.

Tower0Bauer

I can think of a number of cards that can get around this.

1) Namely... ANY gear removal. I heard this new 3 mana uncommon exists that any deck can play.
2) Stone of Simplicity. Mind Restorer trigger never happens.
3) Not saying people would play it, but that 3 mana core card that gets rid of all copies of a card from the deck when one is in play. Can't remember the exact name.
4) Clear should stop the people from playing Landslide, if you go that route still.

Need I go on or does the noob have the answers?

mmabistra
mmabistra's picture

Why are you starting a fight and insulting?

Tower0Bauer

Basically, I'm sick and tired of him being a a negative nancy .

*20:28 20-3-2016: Edited by Archa1983

nosher

Tower, a bog standard player who wouldnt even be in an epic guild if we had a decent sized player base, has shown himself up once again.

One reason why I'd love to see a good player base is to see the likes of tower relegated to the scrapheap in some gold guild where be belongs :)

I'd be all right, my guild like all the 15's I get. Tower can't say the same, so no-one takes a blind bit of notice to anything he's got to say.

Any fight he starts with me, he loses.

Tower0Bauer

Still doesn't change the fact that you are A whining little female dog who thinks that anything said against you makes that person not worthy of breathing air. You are a unpleasant word inserted here bully who really needs to shut the another mean word up.

* 20:31 20-3-2016 Edited by archa1983

nosher

But you can't make me, too bad.

Poor old tower, gets upset by a man who speaks the truth about a card game.

How about entering the real world for a second. A world where people get murdered everyday and many cruel things happen.

I've never sent tower a pm in game, or communicate with him beyond reacting to his posts calling me a crying female dog . Some bully I am.

So sorry if my hearts not bleeding for poor, bullied tower.

*20:33 20-3-2016 edited by archa1983

Tower0Bauer

Exactly, and you can't do poop about me continuing this so-called harassment.

But take a good look Vermin. It ain't just me who feels the way I do. I just have the balls to speak the truth.

The only difference is I got the balls to say it
In front of y'all and I don't gotta be false or sugarcoated at all
I just get on the mic and spit it
And whether you like to admit it [*ERR*] I just sing it
Better than ninety percent of you rappers out can

20:34 20-3-2016 Edited by archa1983

Petrus2

1) give me decent gear removal an i use it. theres currently not one not terribly overpriced gear removal without drawbacks. an before you come with tempest echoblast etc: echo is ancient wich is a drawback in itself, tempest is no gear removal but a multi purpose card, an as such its a terribly overpriced gear removal.
2) looks at stone, looks at mindpreserver... theres no interaction. stone des exactly nothing to stop it.
3) useless, an even you say it yourself so stop naming bullshit.
4) helps stall landslide for the duration of clear. wow. you get to play even longer vs a boring bullshit deck. great!.... now wheres the advantage of that again?

Tower0Bauer

If I'm wrong, then explain it a way which is not being a condescending jackass, but isn't Mind Preserver a comes into play effect, which Stone of Simplicity stops?

Petrus2

nope. stones stop on enter and on turn effects. preserver is a on damage effect so it should not be stopped.

Tower0Bauer

My mistake then.

Tower0Bauer

I am facing Mind Restorer right now. It says "ON ENTER". Please, if you are going to correct me, make sure you know what the hell you are talking about.

nosher

mind preserver is a different card to mind restorer.

What a noob :D A noob who always thinks he's right at that.

Tower0Bauer

Eh, or I just need to read a little better.

cewen

I agree. Is it OP or are you lot just unable to deal with it?

You asked for unaligned gear removal, and you got it. So use it.

Apan1154

cewen wrote:I agree. Is it OP or are you lot just unable to deal with it?
You asked for unaligned gear removal, and you got it. So buy it with money and support the game.

Corrected :), not saying that you shouldn't spend money on the game though. I do feel that the helm is abit too much. Some tweaks could be done about it.

What 3 mana core card gets rid off of a card that is in play and removes all copies of it?

cewen

Was mainly trying to hint at that there are gear removal cards, but nobody wants to use them (like sabotage, primary example) - no reason to ruin the fun deck for the people that;
A) Paid for it with real cash
or
B) earned it as an arena prize

A tweak may be needed, but I would not go as far to completely re-phrase the text. It is an arena promo; the majority of custom arena promo cards GANZ have made have ALL had whacky effects (from summoners gambit to spellfire to this). In otherwords, its just all good fun :)

nosher

Let's make a 4 mana gear with this text; *on your next turn, you win the game.*

No-one can complain, because we got all this amazing gear removal!! Or just run bothar!!

No gear is over powered because we have a few rubbish gear removal cards. #cewenlogic

cewen

3 mana, limited, unaligned card, which grants a bonus if your hero is unaligned (menaing even the typical amoyra deck could throw this in, and beat Helm of everwill decks)

Let me show you the irony;
You made about 5 different forum topics saying "we need more gear removal, deploy cannons this deploy cannons that"
And you got the most common, easiest to use gear removal in the game. Any deck/hero can use it. Any.
"We have a few rubbish gear removal cards" - Sabotage.

nosher

Why is sabotage good? Never mind the fact its a pay2win card, not that you'll be winning many games by paying for it anyway.

Its only an uncommon, so i don't expect it to be a world beating card. But you quote it as the answer for every gear, so no gear can ever be broken #cewenlogic

cewen

Its good because its a cheap, uncommon card that can be used in limited, standard and any deck. Simple.

Maybe not solving every gear, like essence (which is just an example) but the average player will only have/use only 1 or 2 helms. Just destroy them when your about to attack and win, done.

Petrus2

give me decent gear removal an i use it. we have none. as a said in chat: i want 1 or maybe 2 mana unaligned targeted gear-removal without additional effects that add to the mana cost, no drawbacks, just that plain an simple. not another overpriced 345678 or 9 mana gear removal with or without additional uses and drawbacks.just a useable card for everyone. sabotage is just a bad joke as its 3 mana and therefore too expensive to run.

on a sidenote: 2 mana would be stretching it. 1 mana unaligned spell: destroy target gear of cost 5 or less.
simple as that. thats a gear removal i'd run in nearly every deck i build.

cewen

You know that gear removal at 1 or 2 mana is common. But NOT unaligned. Unaligned gear removal must be 3 mana + or else it will potentially kill all gear decks.

I remember people complaining gear decks were dead when bother came in :P

Petrus2

actually we NEED 1 mana unaligned gear removal, and good ones to keep all those stupid gear decks from popping up every other week. i just want the old times back when gear decks were incredibly rare and would win because they are rare. 1 mana targeted gear removal would do that trick.

and actually: no 1 or 2 mana gear removal is not common. its nonexistant. the only exception there might be that 1 mana ancient card that puts the card back into the deck. its not really removed from play, but at least from the field. delay... not good.

Tower0Bauer

Petrus2 wrote:
and actually: no 1 or 2 mana gear removal is not common. its nonexistant. the only exception there might be that 1 mana ancient card that puts the card back into the deck. its not really removed from play, but at least from the field. delay... not good.

Um... Puncture Blast, I think? Destroy a gear and deal 1 damage to the enemy.

Petrus2

hooray. lets break down how much awesome gear removal we have:

punkture blast: 3 Mana Elemental spell: destroy random gear. 3 mana, random. 2 mayor drawbacks in a game that gives you 2 mana per turn and where 1-3 mana gears are common.

smelt: 2 mana alchemy, destroy target gear, enemy gains 2 mana. would actially be ok, with the amount of players using alchemy for rejuve an such, if not for the enemy mana gain. thats simply a no-go.

Shatter: 2 mana ele spell, destroy random enemy gear 4 mana or less again: 2 drawbacks, random and mana cap. the more serious is the randomness, but the cap does the trick of making it unusable against the most common high mana gear: eba and now helm.

return to elements: 5 mana ele spell, destroy 2 random enemy gears. yeah as bad as it sounds. not gonna weit for 2,5 rounds to then destroy 2 elder scrolls.

Blunderbuss: 3 mana unaligned gear, destroy 1 gear every round. yeah, no mistake of my part. destroys ANY gear. And to add insult to injury: when there is no other gear it destroys itself and deals 1 dmg to self. hooray. not gonna use that.

atomic smasher: 5 mana unaligned gear, destroy random enemy creature or gear every turn. high cost, but does work as intended... somewhat. randomness and target of creatures AND gear makes it somewhat useless against gear/creature combo spam like... chalice? yeah, so its ok, but not great. and its high cost.

Steel crusher: 5 mana ancient creature: on enter: destroy random enemy gear, get 1 att. not terrible for limited, but utterly useless in std. high cost and randomness mean its more of a desparation card or additional gear hat, no primary anti gear card.

Echo Blast: 5 mana ancient spell: destroy all things of one name. Nice card. want more of those. plain and simple. only drawback are high cost(for what it does its really ok, no complains) and its ancient. make it unaligned pls.

Dissemble: 2 mana alchemy spell: destroy target gear, summon 2/2 into gear controllers field. "the better smelt" if you ask me. but still: helping the enemy is a no-go. so scratch that, its bad.

Crush the meek: 4 mana ancient spell: destroy all things 2 mana and less. Destroy ALL targets 2 mana and less. bye bye ally gear, ally creatures. but thats a question of timing, ok. 2 mana or less and being ancient make it stop being usefull tho. i don't want to be forced to play ancient just to be able to hate gear!!!

Shaman of the earth: 3 mana elemental creature: 2/2 when set to defense destroy enemy random gear 4 mana or less. again... 4 mana or less AND random. ok, it can double as a creature... whatever uses that might have, doesnt really matter i talk about gear removal.

Turn to wyrm: destroy target card, summon 3/3 dragon or somesuch. 3 mana ancient spell. actually ok for what it does, but: its tribes 2, so pay gems, and its ancient. gear hat needs to stop being ancient.

Awakend Elder: 6 mana ANCIENT creature, destroy random gear or construct, gain 2 att when do. ancient, random, creature can be even easier removed then a spell or gear being blocked. don't get me wrong: its one of the best anti- gear cards we have. and that in itself is sad, cause its not that great.

Tempor reversal... don't get me started. that spell should not exist. or at least exist at 15 mana cost minimum.

Hammer of the gods: 3 mana ancient gear: destroy gear or creature with lowest cost. destroys own things too. and lowest cost makes it predicable, which means you will never destroy what you want to, unless its chalice wich is 1 mana... so don't play 1 mana cards...ok ok its not that bad. but it will kill your own creatures if your enemy is smat. so no thanks, not gonna do.oh, and did i mention its ancient again?

and at last we get sabotage: 3 mana unaligned spell, destroy target gear, if your unaligned enemy discards 1 card. 3 mana means its high cost for what it does, and the discard effect is likely wasted for almost everyone. also you have to pay real money right now to get it, later you will need to pay gems to get it... so no, not gonna work.

Tempest: 4 mana deal 2 to hero, 2 to enemy creature, destroy random gear with 4 mana or less. nice all around card. but not much in the sense of gear removal. same problems as always: mediocre cost (4 mana if your forced to play it without a creature on the enemy side for 1 gear less and 2 dmg. ok, the numbers still add up, but its just a bad deal cause ->) random and mana cap make it a nice add on but never a full anti gear card.

so cewen, Bauer and whoever defends gear removal: where is the good gear removal?`all i see is a bunch of ok cards at best, with a few good ancient ones in between. and as i said: i don#t want to be forced to play ancient just to be able to deal with gear, wich is something every kingdom has.

Edit: i actually forgot two: oust and cease fire

oust: 1 mana ancient spell, put target card 2 mana or less on the bottom of enemy deck. ok, if not for the ancient part...

cease fire: destroy all weapon gear cards. yes, all. bye elvish armments. or whatever you planned on playing. a nice card... if you plan on using holy. so a must have for ravi chalice decks i guess, to counter blunderbuss.. wait not even there, since ravi has built in gear removal... so yeah. good card for a bad kingdom. make the kingdom usefull an i start praising this one.

cewen

Good removal;

Temporal Reversal (don't talk about this card but, your delusional when it comes to it)

Sabotage - any hero. deck can use it. Any lower than 3 mana would hurt gear decks very badly (also with the new 8cap on gear spots)

Tempest - almost a stronger version of maelstrom

Awakened Elder - this card alone destroys Mek and Ravi.

"Make Echo Blast unaligned pls" - your delusional. I can't take you seriously on this topic anymore. But I've done more than point out the flaws in several of them. Some of em are good, and some of them are bad (like turn to wyrum - should be YOUR 3-3 wyrum, not opponents :P)

But the point is, the removal IS there. Open your mind further bud (maybe play more than 1 or 2 heros too) and you might just see what I mean :)

Petrus2

This comment was written without the new plans for gears in mind. in fact i did not read em until right now. but:

Sabotage: there is a NEED to hurt gear decks. the problem with gear decks is: no one runs anti gear cards. the problem with anti gear cards is: they are ancient or bad. So we NEED a 2-1 mana (1 mana preffered) targeted gear removal to stop things like chalice spamming. what good is it fi you are able to destroy 1 gear for 4 mana when the gear cost 1 mana? nothing! you slowly lose on count of math, cause you can't spend that much mana without falling behind and losing the battle. OR you don't play gear removal and lose the battle. great, so no choice at all.

tempest: while i disagree with the stronger part, i do agree with you that they are comparable. tempest is a nice versatile card. no arguments about that. but as a pure gear removal it sucks. 4 mana to remove 1 gear is just what i said above: unbearable because you lose cause of math.

Elder: scrolling up i see... i said elder is... ok. its vulerable as every creature is, cause creature removal is easy to get and a lot of heroes have it built in. the destroy is random, and kills own gears, and its ancient. so yeah, if your ancient, don't plan on using gear and hate gear so much that you use your 2 limited epic slots for elder its fine. don't expect to be too good tho, cause your not. But: BUT! more cards of the level of elder would be nice. cause its one of the best anti- gear cards we have (which is pretty sad, cause its not that good)

cewen

I get that it was written before 8 mana gear cap. And I did only flick through your list, so apologies if my points seem slightly off (like on elder)

I still disagree on sabotage. I think it being any less than 3 mana would be unessacery hurt to gear decks in general.

HOWEVER> I suggest we try this 8 cap gera thing. As in no more spam on this thread from people, jus let it die and see how things roll out. If the 8 gear cap is in place and gears are still completely nutz and out of hand (supposable) then could either;

Reduce the cap further; down to 6. OR make a new card like sabotage. Or something.
But I suggest we just all sit back and let the 8 mana gear cap do its work.

Vasseer

There are tons of 2 mana gear removal spells. Returning to when gear decks were rare? This is bs, gear has dominated since day 1 (or at least since I started playing 1 month after launch). 1 Mana unaligned gear removal should not exist, hell no unaligned gear removal should exist at all, sucks if 1 kingdom can't play gear removal play a different deck.

Apan1154

I was thinking along the lines of "When damage is dealt to your hero, prevent X of it and mill X instead, where X is 10 (or a different number) minus current turn number". This way, it still has great potential for stall decks and particularly effective early game for one to set up other cards to carry the stalling later on. Of course, should program it so that X cannot go below 0.

lawofthewest

Apan1154 wrote:I was thinking along the lines of "When damage is dealt to your hero, prevent X of it and mill X instead, where X is 10 (or a different number) minus current turn number". This way, it still has great potential for stall decks and particularly effective early game for one to set up other cards to carry the stalling later on. Of course, should program it so that X cannot go below 0.

It's nice that you have been thinking. There is no need for nerf of this card and it will stay as it is.

cewen

Having fun with editing these posts archa? Im chuckling to myself, keep it up ;P

archa1983

cewen wrote:Having fun with editing these posts archa? Im chuckling to myself, keep it up ;P

The most fun. Would be a terrible shame if those posts got deleted.

Tower0Bauer

Gotta say, the Eminem quote was pure genius.

mmabistra
mmabistra's picture

This is broken combo,Ganz por favor do something fast

Petrus2

mmabistra wrote:This is broken combo,Ganz por favor do something fast

quoted for truth. emphasis on fast.

hopeprevails
hopeprevails's picture

I play a gear removal creature deck and have no trouble. This is rock/paper/scissors.

Pokekid01

Can I please ask that preserver be changed to "when your hero would mill, return a card from you discard pile to your deck first"?

The reason I ask for the return to go first is that when the enemy hero has 0 cards in their deck, and they would mill, it has no effect (since an empty deck can't be milled), but then it gives a card to the deck anyways, allowing the hero to live when he should have milled out.

Normally, there is a solution: when the hero is at a deck size of 1, let him draw it, then don't do any damage to prevent his preserver(s) from activating. However, if you have a lava blade or QDC or something that will always cause damage (or, god forbid, the other plays the rack), the preserver will always activate, giving the user complete immortality so long as no gear removal is used.

The worst by far of these examples is thought destroyer. When I'm using my mill deck and I run into a helm deck by chance, I'm thrilled. But then my thought destroyer gives him total and complete immortality by activating his preserver every turn. Mill deck should be helm's achilles heel, not its ultimate win condition.

Petrus2

totally agree with the last sentence. helm ist just very very badly made. it should be remade very very fast.

real_lex

Why change this card?

Don't want to see this changed unless Queen of Dragons and Endless Evil get changed also.

If Helm of Everwill gets changed before those I call bullsjeet.

Petrus2

theres slight difference there. helm is a gear and a stupid stalling one to boot. queen is a creature, and endless summons creatures. both are infinitely more fun to play against then helm.

Vasseer

In terms of fun QDC > Combo > Gear decks > Mill > Turbo Stall > Anything Else > Creature decks > Nothing cause creature/smash face decks are boring af

Petrus2

lets disagree once again... creatures decks play with the opponent (lets say thats you for now) so i will get to play my deck, and you will answer in kind, while pursuing your own strategy. Combo decks are worse, because... lets take firestorm shaman decks. they sit there, doing not much, only removing high threat things till they are ready to combo you into death. great, i got to play a few cards, always trying to outrush you... not that much fun. gear decks are even worse. they don't even care about anything but their own gears, either i have gear removal ->( which we lack decent non ancient cards for, play 2 of a copy and see your opponent stop playing gear removal, cuz the mana ratio of played gear removal to gear cost is nowhere balanced) or i can give up, or wait till that stupid gear finally kills me. again... great. QDC/Timewalk is the worst ever, because they take either one incredibly long turn killing you with gears constantly refreshing their deck (opus times) or take like 10, 20 or infinite turns (again, opus times) to kill you. QDC never interacts with you at all. simply draw draw draw draw. wow. could play with ai, just the same. no real interaction. in fact even an ai played ichor swap has MORE interaction that qdc. Timewalks just the same. at first thania sitting there, doing nothing, then BAM burst of activity in one turn, charging her up starting timewalking into next week till your dead. Again: no interaction at all. those are no intense fights, these are just boring and annoying to the opponent of either deck. and because ppl tend to play the best deck possible in this game its an ever increasing number that plays that shit. which makes all others who do not want to play it ragequit at first, then quit the game a few losses later. Me myself i did quit the game for over a Year shortly after that stupid opus qdc became a thing. and without this announcment here i'd be quitting again because of timewalk, chalice and other madness.

real_lex

All of them are infinitely exactly as annoying to play against. Nerf all or nerf non.

GANZ_Karl
GANZ_Karl's picture

Let me throw a couple of points in here:

1) You forgot Smash to Smithereens and Acquire. Both are very good against Helm.

2) Core 2 will tone down the power level of numerous top decks, Helm of the Everwill included, without nerfing Helm. Remember, a good number of cards will be leaving the environment. Some of these are played in the Helm deck.

Pokekid01

preserver?

cewen

Thyats just silly. We have to have some anti mill cards, or mill decks could take over. Devroth puzzle mage decks can already reduce an opponents deck to 5 or less cards on turn 4.

Petrus2

actually a mildly lucky devroth who is build nicely can mill you on turn 4 completely. but the point there is: there are a LOT of counters to devroth mill. Haste, Manadenial, Charge denial, one single thought preserver. And don't get fooled by that short list, its styles that counter it. The hero shadow kills devroth. a single skullcrusher kills devroth. one or two siphon kill devroth usually. poverty, archmage, frostwielder or the new forge kill devroth. most aggro builds kill him too if they recognize they are up against mill.

cewen

Point is, mind preserver is an anti mill card, an needs to stay in the game.

Its like removing circlet of wisdom and expecting haste decks to not go out of control,
or removing armour and imagining old QDC would not be affected.

Its a reasonable counter, and it shouldn't go because it does 1 combo. If that's the problem, look and complain at grovenhold with final fight :P

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