Isn't Felincia a bit OP?

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Jace
Isn't Felincia a bit OP?

I was excited hearing one of the last blog posts where we were told that they were working harder on balancing the game and keeping it balanced in the future but then I see previews of the new heroes and find that they want to totally disregard that in the next post!

Mek is cleary OP. With an ultimate that could set him up for near infinite turns and give him an unfair advantage with extra cards, no hero currently available can compete with that!

And I thought I had misread Felincia! A Kindle The Fury without and mana limit and removal without restriction for 4?! How is this fair?!

There should be a 4 or less limit on Felincia's final and Meks final would be fine at just giving the creatures in play +1/+1 rather than a ridiculous extra card every turn as well.

cewen

I would actually consider the new hero's "weak" compared to ichor devroth and thinia.

mmabistra
mmabistra's picture

I dont think she is weak mate.

GANZ_Karl
GANZ_Karl's picture

Felincia's final is not Kindle the Fury. It gives the creature back at the end of turn (and blocking all of the opponent's lanes does not stop this from happening). And remember Doomed takes a turn to trigger. So it won't save you if that opponent's creature is going to swing in for the win. And it's a status effect, so Puresoul prevents it.

Oncus
Oncus's picture

GANZ_Karl wrote:and blocking all of the opponent's lanes does not stop this from happening.

So what happens then? You steal a creature, place a goblin in it's original slot, and place two more in the other slots. What happens at the end of a turn with the stolen creature? What happens to the poor goblins? Does the creature bounce back to the enemy's hand?

Also, does the creature lose the haste ability once it returns?

GANZ_Karl
GANZ_Karl's picture

The stolen creature switches places with the opposing creature. So playing Grave Fulfilment after Sword of the Sand will result in you having a corpse and them having their creature back

And the creature keeps the haste ability (currently, this may change).

Oncus
Oncus's picture

Which means it will be avaliable to attack once it's returned to it's rightful owner. That's kinda nice.

What happens if you copy the stolen creature (i know most copies are mystical, maybe the alchemy one has the same effect)? Copy "remembers" kindle the fury dying on the end of the turn. So my guess is, it would give the copy to the enemy as well.

If works like that, then relocating your stolen creature could mean you would gain it back at the end of turn. Sadly, relocate is mystical, so no mind wars..

GANZ_Karl
GANZ_Karl's picture

There are only two situations where you can copy a stolen creature: Doppleganger and Transmute. For Doppleganger there is no issue, you keep the creature. With Transmute it does copy the send back, but how it works is that it puts one copy back, then swaps places with the second copy, with the result being that you still have one copy and they have one copy.

Oncus
Oncus's picture

I can see a lot of creative ways to abuse Felincia's ultimate charge, but on paper her kit doesn't come off too strong. Doom is another cheap big creature counter (that we honestly didn't need) but comparing to ichor's 4th charge that almost always kill but instantly!, it doesn't seem more of a problem than Ichor.

I can definitely see Felincia being fun to play, maybe even competitive, but I would wait until she's released to see how she exactly plays in a live environment.

cewen

Meh, I know, more stuff killing ancient cards . . .we better get a card to auto give ancient creatures indestructible soon :P

She should be fun at most. The definitely won't be able to compete with thinia or ichor. I bet all 4 of my foiled temporal reversals' on it :). simply too weak.

Even worse if felnica's last gives the opponents creatures BACK. Its basically nick for 1 turn, or give a hasted creature . . . haste . .. .

GANZ_Karl
GANZ_Karl's picture

You could, if you wanted, give the creature Doomed, then steal it...

cewen

cheers for that helpful combo :P

I dunno how to make a deck with her to be honest, but I'll still buy her probably and try it out. But doom on a stolen creature with it sounds OK too :)

Wish there was more "if you control it, deal damage to you" type of cards. Make felnica and ofc, relocate a little stronger :D

Dr.Bojangles
Dr.Bojangles's picture

How about something like this cewen
http://kccgdecks.com/#deckNKUOLDIV

And yea it seems you don't get to keep the creature if you fill the lane. That was just some top lane bug we were having.

cewen

Doesan't sound like a "bug" sounds more like strategic thinking ;)

Adjustments i'd make to felinica:

her ult: Remove the restriction of elemental creature. Its ironic, unnnessacery. I know, people would whine "hasted gobs, hasted gobs!" but, felinica can STEAL them too, aswell as bleed being in the game, and fae's charm.

If people whine and complain about a combo or hero, your doing the RIGHT thing.
Might make a separate forum post suggesting buffs for the hero's when they come out. or nerfs for ichor devroth and thinia too. :)

Oncus
Oncus's picture

Except it also means hasted certain 3/2 epic undead card and a certain 5/5 card. No ty. however, I do agree that giving haste to an elemental creature would be mostly redundant.

Also, if a lot of people complain about a combo being too mana efficient/having no counterplay, that's not exactly a proof of doing a good thing...

Dr.Bojangles
Dr.Bojangles's picture

Grizzle I wouldn't be too worried about I mean we already have GFE but yea Spectre would be a terror.

GANZ_Karl
GANZ_Karl's picture

If you play Scavenger Goblin into Felincia's ultimate, that's on you. If they pop out a Goblin and give it haste for free and blow you out, that's because we didn't balance the hero correctly.

Remember Haste is the most powerful ability in the game by a long shot. It must be used sparingly.

I do suspect that most players will use Steal over the pure Haste most of the time, but it is a nice addition that rewards you for playing on Kingdom.

cewen

I guess your completely right when you think about it, a hero ability which specifically sets up a powerful combo would be unbalanced :/

What about felincia's first though? seems slightly weaker than acornos's first. But then again, that 1 or 2 mana will help. I think im actually goanna try a sparkshot deck again with this new hero :)

Dr.Bojangles
Dr.Bojangles's picture

1st of all you really can't compare hero abilities directly across hero's. 2nd Arc's first may be a bit on the heavy side.

Not to mention they aren't even comparable. One is direct damage the other is mana ramp. You sure you read that correctly? The 1 damage goes to you.

cewen

Its still the same general thing :P. If felinca was going to have an ability similar to acornos's first, it would be gain 1 mana, 2 if elemental creature on board or something like that. No self harm needed :P

comparing hero's is completely OK. 1 is an old tier 2 hero, and the other is a 4th. Compare them, to make felinca slightly stronger, done :)

Dr.Bojangles
Dr.Bojangles's picture

Well like I say Arc's blistershock is already way ahead of the curve. It is by far the strongest 3 charge ability in the game right now and may well be a bit too pushed judging by his performance. Now you can make the case that Felincia shouldn't have the self damage and I'll tell what. I'll try and run some tests to see if that might be warranted.

cewen

Great :). i'd like to see these hero's as best as they possibly can be :D

At first, I thought the beta testers and GANZ had been drunk or something by the look of the new hero's and seeing how "weak" they are. I apologise for this rude, un-justified statement.

I agree with what karl said, sporting a hero to perform a strong combo with 1 or 2 certain cards would be unbalanced.

When the new hero's are realised, I will make a forum post suggesting buffs, AND nerfs to devroth, ichor and felinca. I thought putting hero's "In line of standard" would be by buffing all the hero's, but I guess we could just nerf the newest to be in line with the rest. Easier, simpler, better :)

but having the hero's as best as they can be, that's what I like to see at the very most ; p

TheSpartanHomie

oh look another nerfer, no she is not OP, MeK is not OP, and the Ancient hero will not be OP as well, tbh GanZ kinda made the new heroes underpowered as to not trigger nerfers, but then again nerfers are all gonna cry about new -things with new decks that aren't non-aggro and the dumb "Jorma Bias".

cewen

+1

I wouldn't say that 100% till there out though. Its something I need to see before I can judge it I think ;)

Oncus
Oncus's picture

Oh look, another complainer. I really don't get why are you so upset over a player voicing his concerns. Maybe unwittingly, he opened an interesting discussion in which we better learned how some things work, and why they may not be as scary as they look on paper.

But saying about something that hasn't even been previewed to not be OP is far far worse than saying the same thing about a previewed hero. You can't even discuss about it; it's just a lame uninformed guess.
The poster said the new heroes are OP, you think they are UP, except you don't offer any arguments, just complain, not even about card, but people...

I'll take type of post like the original post any day over type of post like these, which are uninformative, undiscussable and are just raw complaint and wild assumptions.

mmabistra
mmabistra's picture

+1 Oncus