Kingdoms Card Design Contest Discussion Thread

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aka-Phil
Kingdoms Card Design Contest Discussion Thread

Feel free to discuss anything about the contest here! If you want to enter the contest, go here: http://forum.kingdomsccg.com/?q=node/1231

Grrwaaa
Grrwaaa's picture

Can I just add that Rune Words are, in fact, words - not spells. The name of the card should be a single word.

cheche19
cheche19's picture

yea!! in fact all the rune words in game have a one word name: "torture" "preserve" "plenty"... i dont like this names. like "Bunnies ... Bunnies Everywhere!" or "History Repeats Itself" anyway if any of these ones get choosed mods will change it name... btw what u guys think about "soothe" ..??

Randomplayer

Grrwaaa wrote:Can I just add that Rune Words are, in fact, words - not spells. The name of the card should be a single word.

True, +1 for you.

DesertStar27
DesertStar27's picture

Wow I never noticed that. . . Just changed the name of mine.
Also who do you guys think is gonna win so far?

mimsy

Good point. I changed mine to Rebound: I can't think of anything better.

DodgeNDive
DodgeNDive's picture

So guys... what do you guys think about a card that swaps yours and your opponent's (Hero) abilities around temporarily? :p

Polarius

I don't like it. Punishes Abaddon way too hard.

DodgeNDive
DodgeNDive's picture

Could simply pack some other rune to get rid of it :)
Bear in mind, I proposed it to be 6 Mana to play
Also bear in mind that you'll get their abilities, which could be just as helpful to you depending on what card you have in mind :)

That said, your opponent plays it, you can use one of their abilities to your advantage, then play a rune BEFORE you end your turn, and thus ending the mimic phase on your turn :)

And last but not least, Abaddon can use the rune prior to end-game so the opponent dont get to make use of revival :)

Polarius

I don't think you understand. Perhaps you haven't played Aba much, but the entire game centers around posturing for the revival. If you can just drop a rune word and kill him outright, it's ridiculous. It can't be countered in any way since you can't play cards on your opponent's turn.

DodgeNDive
DodgeNDive's picture

I see, so you don't feel like an opposing hero's ability would be much use?

With your thoughts taken on board, I can suggest that maybe passive abilities are not swapped around?
What do you think is the impact of this newly proposed change?

I understand that is Aba's game, I was simply suggesting that on the earlier games, abaddon can use the card to utilise the opposing hero's abilities - however it does outweighs the disadvantage of getting killed outright.

So yes, "Heroes' active abilities are swapped around for x turns" how about that? :)

Polarius

Leaving passives intact would get messy when one Hero has three active abilities and another has only two. You could make it so that the active that corresponds with the passive also doesn't get switched, but then there would need to be a re-ordering of the abilities to have all the passives occupy the same slot (the far right, preferably, to minimize difficulty with T1 Heroes). You'd want to make sure that an Aka player can't nab Infusion but keep Fury, for example.

Yubar09
Yubar09's picture

That actually sounds awesome Dodge, especially after u use yours and theirs are full

DodgeNDive
DodgeNDive's picture

If you're fighting Abaddon you can steal his hellfire revive if he almost kills you!!

Or Furious revive one of your own creature as a Baha fighting Jorma (which could easily be a vengeful titan if you're fury reviving a giant)

Make your own construct vs Dravkas :3

Spell link a shatter or smelt against Noran's QDC, etc etc etc :D

e797880
e797880's picture

would be tough for the devs to implement but i like the idea

DodgeNDive
DodgeNDive's picture

Excellent! Well I hope they can implement it :')

Randomplayer

Until now many of the suggested cards are for personal use of a certain hero.

"Creatures enter play with slow 2" -> Noran card

"all the creatures will be pacified, gears can't do any damage, and damage spells or abilities can't be used." -> Bahamuth card

"Creatures entering play gain timid" -> Noran card

"All creatures are unblockable" -> Jorma card

"When a creature would deal damage, it instead deal random damage from 0-X where X = the creatures attack" -> Noran again

"Each time a non-flying creature initiates an attack, it loses 1 life" -> Akatrill card

"On enter/on each turn: Any corpse on the field turns to a 1/1 skeleton" -> Anti Jorma/Abaddon card

"Heroes can't gain HP" -> Anti Belnir card

"Every time a hero plays an elemental spell, that hero loses 1 health" -> Should i comment? :D

"Card Text:Gear Cards Can't Be Played" -> Same as above

I think that a card born from a contest should be fair for all players, and that the game should be balanced by cards created from developers.
It would be bad that the player who wins the contest will have a "self designed" OP card for his deck.

t3a6ag
t3a6ag's picture

What you're saying is that you want a card that is equally good for all heroes. Now this could either be a weak card that is equally bad for all heroes and nobody will use it or a strong card that will fit into every deck and therefore probably be overpowered.

Of course a certain card will be better in one deck than another but that is the whole point of the game. Are you saying that you think that your suggestion is equally good for all heroes?

You have included my suggestion in your post and yes I do play Noran but I do not think my card is OP and I probably wouldn't even use it in my deck. This is mainly because Rune words are not that great and I don't think there have been any suggestions that I would use yet. That is not to say that I don't think the ideas are fun and interesting so keep them coming guys.

DesertStar27
DesertStar27's picture

I think it's quite hard to make a rune word op as it still costs you the mana to play it and your opponent gets the effects as well so you would need something for a specific deck or it's usually a waste of mana. . . Unless it's a card like plenty that gives you mana.

t3a6ag
t3a6ag's picture

On the contrary, it is very easy to make a rune word OP just as it is very difficult to make a rune word equally useful for all heroes.

For example: 'Each turn; Destroy all creatures.' would be OP for Noran and Bahamut as it would shut down other heroes. You would rarely find a use for this card in another deck.

Randomplayer

t3a6ag wrote:What you're saying is that you want a card that is equally good for all heroes.

Not necessary, but at least that is not designed for a single hero or to counter a single hero.

If devs wants to improve/nerf a hero/card, they have the power of doing that in various way.
But from a contest imho is better to have a "fair" (more as possible) choice.

Btw the contest rules says "It's effect should be fair".

Kensu
Kensu's picture

Randomplayer wrote:
I think that a card born from a contest should be fair for all players, and that the game should be balanced by cards created from developers.
It would be bad that the player who wins the contest will have a "self designed" OP card for his deck.

I agree with you completely. When I read though these cards, they have very narrow application, create very boring and lopsided towards one type of player game states. That's why when I made my card I was trying to create something that could benefit different types of decks based on when it was played. And not only that, it would punish you for playing it wrong and reward you for playing it right. I liked the idea of a card that had a risk built in for using it. Since if your opponent breaks it he gets the benefit first. This would also change the meta game. People would use other rune words to counter the card and such. So we may see lesser played cards popping up.

For reference this is what I posted.

Kensu wrote:
Name: Burst of Power
Mana Cost: 2
Turn Duration: 4
Card Text: While this Rune word is in play all abilities charges are set to zero and cannot change. When this Rune word expires all abilities are charged to full.

DodgeNDive
DodgeNDive's picture

Mana cost 2 is too cheap,
4 turns duration is too short because that would mean your abilities would be full in 2 turns and there's no way of preventing it

I would suggest, since a full ability charge say, 4 charges would cost 8 mana from siphon, make it a 6 mana card as it will be a rare.

Make the turn counter 8 instead of 4.
This would make Siphon and other counter-alterations more interesting with it.
You could potentially play a siphon on a 4 charges ability and you'll get to use it twice in a row.

Good idea, but if you think about my suggestions to improve it, i think it could be better :)

Kensu
Kensu's picture

DodgeNDive wrote:
Mana cost 2 is too cheap

I would disagree, how many rune words do you see being used? Even the free ones are not used at all. The effect hits both players so they are both charged to full without the use of other cards. The only bonus the player who plays it gets is that they can use their charges first if their opponent does not break it early. The very nature of Rune cards (and most equipment cards for that matter) is very limiting in regards to impact on the board in any meaningful way. By increasing the cost even to 3 you are talking about using a turn and a half worth of mana at which point the card is not worth playing for aggressive decks. As they cannot afford to spend that much mana on a non-creature, non-removal type spell. In short, increasing the mana cost favors Bahamut type decks far too much.

DodgeNDive wrote:
Make the turn counter 8 instead of 4

I also disagree with this change. If you were to do this, Jorma decks and any other deck with an aggressive creature strategy would run 4 of them. 4 turns of no abilities sounds awesome! 2 with a drawback at the end is much more reasonable. This cards was meant to favor slower charge up decks since Jorma is the hero being used at higher rankings the most. Granted, bumping it up would make the slower decks start running lots of zero casting cost rune words to counter this card. I do like a shifting meta game. =)

As far as no way of preventing it, this true but you can counter it. End it early either with another rune word to get the benefit or with another one chained together to continue the effect. However if you are building around this idea of playing this card and breaking it you are looking at 8-12 card investment in you deck build. 4 Burst of power, plus 4-8 zero casting cost rune words in order to break it right away. This would be a cool combo but 12 cards is a heavy investment for one combo. Especially since 8 of those 12 cards don't have a meaningful impact on the board on their own.

DodgeNDive
DodgeNDive's picture

There's no way of avoiding this card being a "Bahamut type" card...

The fact that your ability becomes full at the end of the effect (with your suggestion, 2nd turn) He can obliterate and summon.

And the fact that it would only cost 2 mana? I don't see how this would balance the benefits for faster, more aggressive decks - as you said.

I can understand your viewpoint that for say, Jorma players - investing 6 mana for her abilities isn't worth it. But however way you'd like to see it, you need to bear in mind that right now, this 2 mana would get Dravkas an equipment and/or construct, Bahamut an obliterate and a summon, Akatril an angel, a +3dmg spike, and possibly a kill, etc, etc

This card simply is not for Jorma.

The fact that both heroes' charges becomes zero and this cannot be changed closes the possibilities.
You should allow charges to be tampered with! For a chance to use your hero abilities twice in a row.
this would then balance things out for Jorma

Turn counter 8 instead of 4... 4 turns of no abilities sounds awesome for you? it's already like that...
You have to realise that 8 turns counter on the rune would mean that it's just 4 of your turns... i.e. 4 charges' worth... which is normal.

It's not just 1 combo... let me give you an example, Torture+Recoil+this rune = 12 runes.
now imagine bahamut playing these. Jorma is dead.

So... if anything the card disadvantage "Agressive creature strategy" too much...
By increasing the turn counter and allowing the charge to be tampered with instead of sitting at zero would balance it out more.

With this, I would conclude a mana cost of 3, and an 8 turns counter, with charge alterations allowed.

markmistr
markmistr's picture

Well, it is going to be up to the devs to decide what is fair and what isn't and I don't think they will pick something that will clearly benefit only 1 hero. Besides, there will be a vote at the end to decide the winner.

I don't know how you could include my idea in this group though - first off, it doesn't benefit any particular hero, and it has more effects than just stalling divine burial, I listed some of them in my description...

DodgeNDive
DodgeNDive's picture

He's saying that if no heroes can gain HP, the hero who starts off with more hp would have the upper hand in the situation - or rather, be more robust/immovable by the effect

Thus making the card less effective vs Baha for example

cheche19
cheche19's picture

hey people! my last idea was "soothe"

"all the creatures will be pacified, gears can't do any damage, and damage spells or abilities can't be used."

But i changed my idea, this one was like a bahamut card haha and op in some ways. Now i made "exchange", u can check it out at the first ideas in the forum. I would like to know what u guys think about it.

* Ideas for the name of the card are welcome *
(I thought about swap, trade ... idk something like that, for now it is exchange)

Apan1154

That's an interesting idea and could be very fun. Perhaps change the name to 'exchange' instead.

whade
whade's picture

I saw so many cool idea that I started scribbling down comments on them. These are one man's non-official personal opinions, but perhaps some of the submitters will like to read them.

I started at the beginning and sort of skipped to the end, missing a lot of cards in the middle due to lack of time, so anyone I didn't have the time to get to, please forgive me.

@EatMeReturns' Sift and @MattiasGrendelson Sight Beyond Sight both try to introduce a "scry" power, which as far as I know is not programmable yet, but that doesn't mean that it will never be possible.

@Grwaaa's Penniless:
A "tutor" ability that works to defend you from the enemy? A great idea that I'd want to be explored in more detail in future cards.

@Fever's Ghost Town: Nice and useful card.

@Diomedes' Pause
A great card that gives a much needed counter against Haste cards and takes away from the power of removal and makes placing creature

I could see the Slow being reduced to 1 to maybe to not make this too useful in stall/control deck, but other than that, this is one card that'd be healthy for the meta. Mystical needs this card!

@J_Keoni's Toll
A good concept, I think the benefits sort of cancel each other out. A card that deals damage upon using Banish is a cool idea, though! I could even see it last 6 turns.

@HOLYwood's Cement
"Immobile" as a rune word effect! I could see it see some play, though I think the fact that it works best if you can summon larger creatures than your enemy, and you have to pay their cost as well as thi card's, may hold back its usefulness a bit. With a lower mana cost, we may have a new rune word, though!

@victorre's Fog: A good card, but I think the maker underestimates the usefulness of Unblockable a little. :) Since this will allow you to deal a lot of damage in one turn (and the subsequent turn too) it can be used to deliver easy kills if you have more creatures than the enemy in play, and as such it is probably too powerful in its current form.

@MIKAFIGUS' Mind Split
Reintroducing the old Copy Spell ability! Maybe it could work better as a Rune word, though I hold it to be too powerful for just 1 mana. I definitely prefer this as a rune word (and as such, giving the enemy a chance to strike back) than an ability or a spell, though!

@Waterbending's Insanity
Really "insane" card, good for those who prefer a bit of randomness introduced to shake up the game.

@travman's Fertile Winds
"Mana cost of all cards is reduced to 2."
I'm afraid this would only be used by Bahamut players against 1-3 mana creature players. But don't give up!

@jerkface58's Quick Sand
A card that essentially freezes player actions, thus it benefits the player who is dominant at that moment. Cards that punish drawing, Banishing etc. are similar and can be quite effective - I think one that punishes absolutely every action could too easily be too much!

@t3a6ag's Uncertainty
I'd rather have this card add -1, 0 or +1 randomly to creatures' attacks. Mass Weaken, randomized, is interesting, but I fear it'd be too much better than the current Weaken cards, which chip away just 1 attack or 2 from a single target. Albeit those are permanent, stall/control decks would have a ball with this!

@lastczarnian's Chaos
I'd fear to see this card used as a mass creature steal, such as by interrupting this with another Rune Word on an uneven turn. Would be fun to see it combined with Fae's Charm to make creatures end up on the 'other side" though!

@Azloki's Eternal Fire
Not a bad card, though I feel a bit too similar to Torture.

@Kensu's Burst Of Power: The problem with this card is that it can give a big advantage (essentially a free Diminish to the caster), though that could be remedied with a higher mana cot; and also that the person that acts first after this expires gets too big an advantage over the other, making this either too powerful (if it ends before the caster's turn) or useless (if it ends before the enemy's. Cards that resets health/attack values/mana/charges or set them to a given number are often imbalancing, and this one is unfortunately too.

@Xeromaus' Boiling Rage
Not a bad idea to make Cleanse into a gear ord power, although status effects would have to be a bit more common for this to become more popular, and I find the 5 mana cost a bit excessive. Not a bad card otherwise and one I could see happen, though!

@CleverNameHere's Potence
A card that ties the two win/loss conditions together is definitely interesting. I think the problem is that in the current meta, those two do not often run parallel - you aren't Milling and killing the enemy hero at the same time - so switching from one to the other wouldn't have an actual drawback manifest itself.

@Pseunomix's Flux
An awesome-fun card to spice up combat a bit! Randomness is at its heart, and you could easily end up with all Ranged creatures against Hasted and Armored enemies, but to those who like some randomness, definitely a neat card. "Joker" or "Strange Concoction" players will love this!

@acc's Neutral Field
Unfortunately there is already a card like this called Powerless in EVE if I'm not mistaken, which removes abilities, although not status effects as well.

@meseary's Cemetery Revival
An interesting gear word-ization of Raise Dead powers.

@markmistr's Bane, Scourge, Plague, or Contagion
I definitely want a way to counter 4 Essence Mantles on a player other than just the Undead Doomsayer card (which is an Epic, and not widely avaliable to players as such). Although poweful, I think it's ultimately good for the game if cards that cut matches shorter are stronger than the ones that make them longer, ie. if healing cards are weaker or have more counters than damaging ones. The fact that it does not prevent Wooden Shiled/Aegis Shield use may count for it being balanced as well.

@vice123's Fulminate
A creative card - the player who uses this will probably come with a handful of removal spells, and the enemy will try to summon creatures with more health than for them be killed, but should I have creatures on my side, what if the enemy has removal too? Meanwhile low health creatures would be shuffled around so that they do not die, even if worthless. Would be a killer with Harvest or Illusionist. One of my favorites due to the fun factor.

@Mind Decay's Mind Decay
An interesting Torture alternative that punishes Noran players, and ESPECIALLY Quickdraw Cannon players.

@Fornjotr's Gravewalker
Despite its apparent simplicity, this is one of the cards that I could see turn out interesting. Corpse creation is one of the things that sets this game apart from other CCGs, it'd be interesting to see how it feels without them.

@Pligi's Inactivity:
Another card to give you more time against gear decks. As such, not bad. What makes this interesting for me is the "invulnerability" part - which may make this worth playing in even gear decks, too!

...

@akerson's Renegotiations
Akerson's comments covered what I could've said here. Not onyl a fun card that lets new & poorer players try out cards that they do not own yet (that may even inspire some sales, devs!) but may even become a tactical tool paired with future Mill mechanics as players become able to predict what is lft in their own deck better. Add this!

@Maxilos's Rune of Confusion
As good as Spiked Armor in creature-less decks, but gives protection from spells too (which makes me want to use it personally). I think it could even aford to go to a lower cost, as I can't see many exploits (at least for now) that wouldn't disadvantage the one who plays this card too, if it wasn't for this covering only creatures and spells, and thus a bit powerful in the hands of a gear player. But keep the 4 mana cost and make this Alchemy and that works then, too!

@Vulpecreatie's Masquerade Party
If only we had more kingdom specific effects! However, there are enough abilities that work on Dark or Light alliance, and so I love this card! Something I wouldn't mind seeing is if the heroes changed their kingdom, too (can't wait to Dark Missile some Abaddons, lol!) Abaddon could be more effective with Mystical and Ancient cards, Fear would work on Ancient etc. A lot of possible combos, but blanced at this cost and duration, I pprove!

@Princess Heartburn's Mourn
What I like about this card is that it makes you WANT to get your creatures killed to reap the sweet deal (cheap 1 mana creatures, if possible). Molten Furyball would go great with this. Akatril with her Angel summon and no use of corpses seems a good pick to combo with this too. I don't know how much I like it since it's more of a combo card than a meta balancing one, but it seems OK in that spot!

@somatic333's Recall
I wish we had this card on the Beta server. What I'd change about it is to have the player draw normally if they have no cards left in their graveyard, to avoid exploits. An excellent card that directs players's attention to the recently added graveyard card pile. It should be called "flashback" if that wasn't already a card, as you get to see the creatures that just died and the spells that were just cast again. The fact that it only draws from the top of the pile seems good - it can not retrieve cards that are "long dead". The only possible issue I can think of is that you can keep getting back the same spell card with this, which is even better than Noran's Spell Link ability. However, even that can be messed up by dead creatures getting mixed in as their corpses leave the board, unless this is an all spell deck. I'd definitely want to play around with this card!

Sergejack

When will the gems be rewarded to participating players?

Sergejack

Why no answer?

markmistr
markmistr's picture

The winners received their gem rewards. There were no gem rewards for just participating.